Material Girls

[lost]

Is it true that tunisian women became very material?

[Mars]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Totally...

Or let me say most of them... 90%

But, you find this tendency all over the world... And Tunisia is part of this world.

Isn't it?

[Aychu]

I agree with mars ...
Material girls is some sort of a fashion or a value spread out throughout the world with the globalization !

Tunisia is indeed a part of that world, and the gap that is getting bigger back in our home country tunisia between the rich and the poor leaving actually a very little layer of an average social class, nor too poor , nor too rich !

That mayer was few years ago very significant, if not to say the dominating one in our society ! Anyhow, that gap makes people wanna pass the boarder from poor to rich, from rich to too rich, and from too rich to the richest ....

So yea, I guess it has become very materialist ....

"It's all about the money, it's all about the dum dara dum dum .."

[Anoushka]

So that makes everybody materialist, not only girls. I’m really interested in knowing what makes you (I mean you guys) perceive any given girl as a materialist one. Would it be the fact that she’s digging for gold, only looking for ways to get rich?
Because to me, there are at least two kinds of materialist people: Those who are just shallow, superficial, only talking and thinking about what’s on the surface: Physical beauty, social status, appearance, clothing… and those who’d find whichever means to get rich.
I happen to have met people falling into each one of these two categories. But they are far away from forming a considerable population. I’ve seen and known girls counting on their exceptional looks to target potential bridegrooms having fortune as their sole valuable criterion. On the other side, I’ve met guys showing off their possessions and relying on their cars to get girls. I see no difference whatsoever between them. Some girls consider fortune as their sole target in life while some guys deem wealth to be the only means to get girls: none is more materialist than the other if you ask me. So why only talk about girls??
I know plenty of girls, having been asked for marriage by very big fortunes, yet rejected the proposals because they were looking for deeper things. I’ve found myself in a similar situation when two ladies came to my place after their son (and brother) saw me in a wedding. They only talked about how many restaurants he had back in France, how many cars… I mean could you believe that??? A mother confidently asking me to marry her son because he is so damn rich!! They were knocked out in disbelief when I said no, and subtly tried to make me understand how crazy and foolish I was rejecting such a “life project”.

Mars, 90% is very much above the reality

[Aychu]

Talking about rich people as if they were all of them bad !
Why do people always end up saying, rich is evil poor is good ???

And what did u expect a mother that has just got rejection from the one that her son desired to marry to say ???

Oh, ok, I know my son isn't good enough for you, so, tell me , where can I find another girl for him ??

It is so natural for her to be disapointed and thus maybe say something bad or try to hurt u coz she is hurt !!
Even a poor guy's mother would go like, u don't know what u r missing, my soon has got potential ... so there, it aint about money ???

"I know plenty of girls, having been asked for marriage by very big fortunes, yet rejected the proposals because they were looking for deeper things."

So the rich person is defintely an asshole that as no feelings ?? that is so not true. Oh yea, the poor one has those deeper things ... Doh, so obvious !!

good guys could be rich or poor, ass holes too !
So the good/bad criteria can't be taken into account ! could it ?

For the cars part and the good looking girl that seduces, it is as old as the world ... as old as the car, and before it must have been some horse, or some camel or so ?!

that aint new, but the new part is that it is spreading around ...
Why do u guys think that ppl have become so, or do we sense that now so much and didn't sense it before ??

Yes, ppl, guys and girls, have become much more materialist then before ...
Girls looking mostly for a comfortable life ( wealthy husbads ) .. !
The other day I was listening to MosaiqueFm and that was the subject, and yes, many girls did go like, love maybe, but wealthy I'd go for it before all !!
It is a criteria nowdays ! and that is a fact !

For guys, it is different, a bit at least, a bit more shy to go for girls s openly coz she is got money ... it exists but still not as obviously seen !!
But where they are doing a good job is marrying them Tunisian girls living abroad and having "lekawarette" ... all that to be able to go abroad too and get to that materialist side of Europe! Fools, as if it was easier out here, as if Europe still has money to be given !!

Anyhows, if we did talk about girls, it was coz the question was about girls .... !!!

[Anoushka]

No one said that rich people are doomed to be bad, at least I didn’t. I was not talking about rich people, rather materialist ones… which makes, in my opinion, a huge difference. Materialist people can be both. Talking about my little experience, I saw more than a mother wanting to marry her son, you were not there so please don’t jump on my neck as if you are the right person to judge me. To me, any person talking about money as if it was the sole key to happiness, the only route to fulfilment and the only basis on which to raise a family is a materialist person. And as a free individual, I have the right to choose the individuals I’d like to be associated with. That mother did not talk about any personal trait characterising her son, she didn’t talk about his temper, his background like others do… only about his possessions. And I was not rude; I just said that I was only focussing on my studies.
As for girls looking for deeper things, what the hell is wrong with it?? They just wanted to have other topics of discussions than money, cars and projects… and anticipating a hostile reaction, I’ d say yes, they gave it a try, and yes it was all about cars and money, and no, they didn’t give up only based on a stereotype of the rich being shallow, but on what they actually experienced.

As for the boyz and galz talk, it wasn’t a real question, just rhetoric… to point out to materialist attitudes as a genderless behaviour, far from being a girly thing…. I can still read as far as I know

[Aychu]

I wasn't hostile to u ...
I am not gonna have a hostile reaction either !!
unless u want one ! lol

nah ...

I know u can read, now that is being hostile to me ... but what the heck ... !!

Nothing is wrong with ppl trying to get to deeper things ... and when i say ppl i refer to it as a genderless behaviour once again !

But on that radio show i was talking about, most of the women who talked about the topic were pointing out that they are/were materialist and they are assuming it ...

that aint no judgement, it is a fact !!

I wasn't giving much of a personal point of view, but tryin to point out facts !
It is becoming more and more about the money, even if we don't like it !

Happiness ? .... Such an old question , yet no clear answer to it !

Criterion may have changed, money, sability, love, etc etc .... But still the same old question !! Same doubts !!


As for :" you were not there so please don’t jump on my neck as if you are the right person to judge me."
I onky said that any mother, however she presents her son, as a cool dude or rich or what so ever ... if she gets a no ... it is normal in my point of view of being a bit sad !!
Where the hell did I judge u in there ???

I wouldn't judge anyone ... It is ur life, feel free to do whatever u want, and sorry for commenting ur posts, won't happen again !

cheers!

[Anoushka]

That is far from being fair!! Never asked you to stop commenting my posts Aychu and never will (you know I appreciate them, crazy I know). So don’t back up at the first diverging point of view. And yeah I had the feeling that you were being rather hostile.

"And what did u expect a mother that has just got rejection from the one that her son desired to marry to say ???
Oh, ok, I know my son isn't good enough for you, so, tell me , where can I find another girl for him ??"

But never mind.

As for the radio discussion, who do you think are the people calling to participate on that kind of useless and sterile shows??? Now seriously, do you really think that they should be regarded as a representative sample on which we can expand our views and generalise them to any bigger population?? I really don’t if you ask me.

Cheers and peace right back at yah!

[Mars]

Envoyé par Anoushka

No one said that rich people are doomed to be bad, at least I didn’t. I was not talking about rich people, rather materialist ones… which makes, in my opinion, a huge difference. Materialist people can be both. Talking about my little experience, I saw more than a mother wanting to marry her son, you were not there so please don’t jump on my neck as if you are the right person to judge me. To me, any person talking about money as if it was the sole key to happiness, the only route to fulfilment and the only basis on which to raise a family is a materialist person. And as a free individual, I have the right to choose the individuals I’d like to be associated with. That mother did not talk about any personal trait characterising her son, she didn’t talk about his temper, his background like others do… only about his possessions. And I was not rude; I just said that I was only focussing on my studies.
As for girls looking for deeper things, what the hell is wrong with it?? They just wanted to have other topics of discussions than money, cars and projects… and anticipating a hostile reaction, I’ d say yes, they gave it a try, and yes it was all about cars and money, and no, they didn’t give up only based on a stereotype of the rich being shallow, but on what they actually experienced.

As for the boyz and galz talk, it wasn’t a real question, just rhetoric… to point out to materialist attitudes as a genderless behaviour, far from being a girly thing…. I can still read as far as I know

Well I think presenting materialism as a genderless attitude, out of its social frame is far from being correct...

It's all about "Culture"... In ours, men have the task to work , make money and feed his family, including his progeny and wife, and to fulfill their maslow pyramid of needs... The wife in turn, more than children, wants to "accomplish its ego"...

Since in our culture, the wife cannot "accomplish its ego" without the financial support of the husband... I'll let you imagine the rest!

So, by definition, men have to be "materialist" in society and it's their lifeway (beware not to be so in family)... This doesn't mean that they are feelingless or that they don't care about principles and ethics, on the countrary, this should be their backbone...

Women, have the choice to be materialist or not, all depends on their social role... if it is confined to educate its progeny and to look after her household, no need to be "materialist". But if its is similar to men's, which is the case nowadays in Tunisia, then, yes she HAS to be "materialist"...

That's why I've put forward the figure of 90%.

PS: "Materialist" shall be perceived as a global behaviour that could be beneficial or desastreous to the community and not as a "sin" which is incarnating all the worst in "materialism"...

[Anoushka]

Mars, are you sure that in order to accomplish her ego, a female needs the support of her husband?? Really?? How can she do so when spending someone else’s money, even her husband’s?? I am a woman, and if I had to accomplish mine, it would rather be by spending my own money earned thanks to my own work and labour… I honestly see no ego boosting in saying my husband bought me this and offered me that, or my husband is richer than yours!

And I m not sure I see what you mean by men are by definition materialists while women have the choice. Does that mean that we can’t blame men for being materialists because they are doomed to be as such, while we can judge women because hey… they had the choice?

I’d really appreciate it if you could elaborate on that part because I am not sure I got it right.

Read ya soon!

[Mars]

I don't wanna hurt your ego... but talking about culture, you've surely been through a tunisian proverb saying "enna3ja titfè5ir b'liyyet el-3allouch"...
haven't you?

"..... while we can judge women because hey… they had the choice?"

I didn't talk about judging women because they are materialist... And that was exactly what I wanted to avoid... the fact of considering "materialism" as a sin!

Please read again the PS...

My position is clear, I "do" understand the fact that most of women, nowadays, are materialist... But I "do not" appreciate the tendency.

Well, as far as marriage is concerned, I would better say "tazawwajou fou9ara2 yoghnikom allah"... Wealth is like luck, one day you have it, another day you don't...

So it is a miserable criteria for miserable minds!

[Anoushka]

i thought your PS was only your own personal point of view, which I find rather noble.. but I personally see no good in being materialist, I mean I don’t consider it to be a proper sin, but I am, let’s say less lenient than you are in the respect that I don’t understand anyone being materialist … I mean even if I always avoid judging people, still, I can’t do better than saying that I only regard materialist people as shallow and by such, issuing a rather harsh judgement, would they be males or females, but anyways. I respect your views. I just find that statements like “nowadays, most of the women are materialist….” is too hard on a great deal of women who simply are not.

[Aychu]

Hey Mars,
in our society, today's society it is not only the men's task to work and feed, ok it is still mostly his task but not 100%.
Women do have the right to share in, and in my point of view it is have even become a duty !

Anyhow,
Materialist ppl exist, and their number is growing ... Is it only cause the situation has got more difficult, ( financial one ) or is it just coz values have changed, ... berfore "Al 9ana3a kanzon la yafna" .... now, no matter how much u have ..... it is still not enough ??

I think it is both the values that are changing and life difficulties that made this easy way out a more commun final choice for ppl !

[Mars]

Envoyé par Anoushka

..... I just find that statements like “nowadays, most of the women are materialist….” is too hard on a great deal of women who simply are not. [/font]

Well, I think you're right... probably I've been a bit harsh for quite a big deal of women which are not "materialist"...

But I'm afraid this big deal of women represents not more than 10%... And you seem to be one of them.

But trust my experience, the forwarded figure of 90% is quite fair!

[Aychu]

Envoyé par Anoushka

That is far from being fair!! Never asked you to stop commenting my posts Aychu and never will (you know I appreciate them, crazy I know). So don’t back up at the first diverging point of view. And yeah I had the feeling that you were being rather hostile.

And who said life is fair ?

Regarding me being hostile, I wasn't at all ! just wanted to point out the fact, once again that ki timshi to5tob we 9oulelik La ... when it is ur son, any mother would titnarveze et se vexe ! As u said, u know how to read, don't try to read between the lines when there is nothing to be read there !

Envoyé par Anoushka

But never mind.

Yeah, Whatever ...

Envoyé par Anoushka

As for the radio discussion, who do you think are the people calling to participate on that kind of useless and sterile shows??? Now seriously, do you really think that they should be regarded as a representative sample on which we can expand our views and generalise them to any bigger population?? I really don’t if you ask me.

As u might have guessed I do listen to those "crapy" shows ... so am I useless and sterile too ??

Furthermore, those who speak are Tunisians, have different points of view, and they do represent some of our society ...
Does that make of them outsiders ?? I don't think so ! They are still a part ou our community, at least a lil portion of them, still they live among us !

Envoyé par Anoushka

Cheers and peace right back at yah!

Still, I am on my positions !

Cheers to u too !